Curse

Brian the Gladiator · Feb 06, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirugel Kai

To play chess you need to be able to think.
To play a sport you have to be strong / physically fit
To mash buttons and use a build you have to stare at it for 3 minutes

Spoken like a true PvE scrub. This is why PvPers give PvEers no respect. To say that this game takes no skill or intelligence is the stupidest thing i have heard in a while. Keep that mentality for all i care just as long as you never set foot in a PvP arena.

p.s. --> to play a sport you need a certain amount of intelligence as well. You can't win based on physical attributes alone. If you had ever played a sport in your life, you would know that, but instead you sit at home playing computer games all day. Computer nerds...

Darkside · Feb 06, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Whooo, I'm not alone.

I was banging my head against the wall earlier trying to explain why wasting half of a Derv's bar on heals and defense is baed

Might leave...

ha ha you are not alone. While playing with a guild group a guy using a derv (who's also been playing for gw for like 2+ years) asked me to ping my skills. I was running a pretty standard Lyssa build. After looking at it his response was just "oh weird". So I ask him to ping his build and it's [skill]avatar of balthazar[/skill] with [skill]zealous renewal[/skill] and [skill]balthazar's rage[/skill] and some other garbage skills. I didn't say anything...I mean what was I suppose to say?

This has happened a few times with alliance members as well. One of them tells me he doesn't like derv's as much as warriors because they don't do enough damage and what not. So I ask him to ping his skills and we got a another AoB build. I tried to explain that the build isn't very good but even though he himself told me the build isn't really working for him he still defended it.

I'm not really sure what to tell these people. Telling people their builds are crap usually just upsets them and if you try and be nice about it they just try and explain why it doesn't suck.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 06, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

I'm not really sure what to tell these people. Telling people their builds are crap usually just upsets them and if you try and be nice about it they just try and explain why it doesn't suck.

Where to begin...?

Really, it's to drill the fundamental maxim into their heads, "Wasting slots on self-defense is a really stupid idea for a physical".

The short of it, is that GW is a team game, read - we got monks. Whatever self-defense crap you choose to bring, it will be inferior to Prot Spirit or WoH. And whereas PS/WoH are staple skills that a decent monk is gonna bring anyway - therefore not wasting skill slots - taking AoB or an Intervention is a waste of skills that could be used to provide some other kind of utility (speed buffs, ench removals or stance breakers to beat down foes trying to defend themselves come to mind for a Derv).

Not to mention, casting Mystic Regen or Balth's Fury is a waste of energy that could better be used to kill something instead. The counter argument, of course, is that you are saving the monk some energy... which I really don't buy, tbh - there's no way in the Nine Hells some regen or 40 armour is gonna save you from any serious damage, if you come under fire you will need someone else to save your ass. Then there's my personal counter - "dead foes do no damage at all". Go all out and tear shit to pieces and you won't have to worry about things killing you because... they're dead.

Rawr... Then there's being good at GW - stuff like having a better, stronger team composition wielding passive defenses (in particular, the seriously OP "SY!" and "TNTF!"), which make the entire team incredibly sturdy and simply destroy all need for people to take personal heals and defenses - with all incoming damage neutered by a web of wards, prots and shouts, the damage you receive is minor enough that you shouldn't give a damn and let a monk or rit mop it up every so often.

Dr Strangelove · Feb 06, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

I'm not really sure what to tell these people. Telling people their builds are crap usually just upsets them and if you try and be nice about it they just try and explain why it doesn't suck.

Generally I just quietly change my heroes' bars to compensate.

However, it does make it all the more awesome when you find someone with a good bar. You have no idea how happy it made me to play with you the first time, and you pinged a Melandru bar

.

~ Dan ~ · Feb 06, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Generally I just quietly change my heroes' bars to compensate.

I just kick the idiots out of my team. There is nothing more pointless than trying to explain why such and such is bad. People in GW just don't listen. They killed abaddon with it, therefore it owns. Stuff them.

Quote:

However, it does make it all the more awesome when you find someone with a good bar. You have no idea how happy it made me to play with you the first time, and you pinged a Melandru bar

.

It actually really surprises me too. Every other build seems to be AoB, it's a nice change to see something else

Dr Strangelove · Feb 06, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

I just kick the idiots out of my team. There is nothing more pointless than trying to explain why such and such is bad. People in GW just don't listen. They killed abaddon with it, therefore it owns. Stuff them.

Not really an option when they're your friends.

~ Dan ~ · Feb 06, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Not really an option when they're your friends.

With friends i generally don't care about their build, as there's not really a nice way to say "your build sucks".

Friends are in my team for the company. Randoms are in my team for efficiency.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 06, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

If the duration is at any point that would make AoG worth using - it will be overpowered. The whole functionality of the skill needs to be changed.

Looks like you just got what you asked for.
http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/

Eldin · Feb 06, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I use it, but I don't rely heavily on it. I just use it in the event I need to tank (for the incompetent wammo).

My build relies primarily on adjacent-enemies-are-pwnd enchatments (Heart of Holy Flame, Eternal Aura, etc) - so it helps.

I can't honestly say I use it due to incompetence, I fared fine without it in the past.

It's an all around useful survival boost IMO. Avatar of Melandru is good too though - mind turning into a wooden fairy lady isn't too enjoyable when your dervish is a male.

Darkside · Feb 06, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Looks like you just got what you asked for.
http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/

Um... odd change there.

Coloneh · Feb 06, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

useless change there.

Div · Feb 06, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by misguiding_prophet

I use it more than i use grenth, so there must be something really good about it 8)

Mending and healing breeze are the two most popular warrior skills. There must be something good about them then!

...or maybe people are just bad

~ Dan ~ · Feb 06, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Looks like you just got what you asked for.
http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/

But now it's obviously underpowered. It's better how it's going though - maybe needs the "if enchanted" clause removed, or a 3rd effect slotted in.

Darkside · Feb 06, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Should be if enchanted or in a stance :P

Sirius-NZ · Feb 07, 2008, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Yeah, it is. Works against enemies that use enchantments to block attacks - or use enchantments and blocking stances - but it wouldn't work e.g. against rangers.

misguiding_prophet · Feb 07, 2008, 07:06 AM // 07:06

I am sure this applies to all professions, but i am personally aware of it being applicable to the dervish more so than even warriors or necromancers. The game allows for a variety of different builds to be successful against pvE as well as in pvp- it is a matter of how you use them, how well you've made the character an extension of yourself and luck.

I've noticed that I havent changed my build at all after consulate docks (on my derv). Half of the skills ensure survivability with a few scythe attacks- with a scythe mastery of 16 its very difficult to find something where you need to go all out offence to cause damage.

AoB is there to be used, if ppl use it then great, if you dont like it thats fine too. This is largely a subjective argument as we have to consider the playing style of an individual, what they want out of the game and also their capacity to run builds.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 07, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Guild Wars isn't entirely a matter of taste; some builds genuinely are better than others. There are any number of builds that will let you complete the game - but that doesn't mean they're particularly powerful.

The reason I (and others) go all-out offence is not because we need to to cause damage, it's because we want to cause as much damage as possible, as fast as possible - because such strategies let you kill things faster, which makes missions go faster (and makes it harder for enemies to get time to kill you, which also makes missions go faster).

For the same reason, you don't need to be a good player to beat the game - you just need to be better than the challenges, and persistence and some degree of learning from mistakes can help you with that. Doesn't mean that a mediocre player and a good player are equally successful though, but likewise it doesn't stop the mediocre player enjoying the game (possibly more, as beating a challenging mission is more rewarding than beating an easy one).

misguiding_prophet · Feb 07, 2008, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Strategically I agree that a build can be better than another- but more importantly, it is a matter of how the build is utilized by a player. I've seen people get smashed hard with the 130 derv build with nothing but melee enemies....

I've noticed that the reduction in HP on my derv (due to pumping mysticism and scythe mastery with runes) doesnt allow me to go all out offence, but I like what I have and respect others for their own ideologies in going through the game.

i often use radiant scythe with lyssas avatar and an ontourage of high cost scythe skills-its fast and lethal but not my type of fun.

Sirius-NZ · Feb 07, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

I have a superior scythe mastery rune on my main PvE set as well, I have to admit.

The HP penalty isn't really hurting me there though - 500 is enough for most circumstances.

Red_Dragon56 · Feb 07, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Anyone think it would be cool to turn AoB into a tank?

I don't mean a tank in the MMO sence.

I mean.

AoB: You move 75% slower, You deal +120 to all attacks, you take 75% less damage.

That's exaggerated, but you get the idea.